If you ever want to work for a company that spends time deriving pleasure from the misfortunes of others, look no further than an American company based in Cork. Today it emerged that O’Reilly sent a cease and desist to the IT@Cork conference for daring to use the term Web 2.0 in the title. Instead of saying “we’re behind you” the company’s blog is delighting with the news. They’ve been snapping at the heels of Tom Raftery and the rest of the IT@Cork folks for weeks now for running the conference and even trying to encourage speakers to give out about the use of the web 2.0 term. What a bunch of fucking assholes.
You’d think a company would try and be part of the local IT community but they’re like a bunch of juveniles with chips on their shoulders. Any time I think of that company I’ll just think of them as that. I certainly won’t recommend them to anyone if I ever had the opportunity to do so. Business blogging can show that you work in a great company and equally it can show that a company can be populated by assholes. I’d link to these gobshites but being the attention economy a link only builds their pagerank and they don’t deserve my link. They’d probably threaten legal action too despite their glee with IT@Cork getting a legal letter. In fact they still could.
could you mention their name, at least? I’m mystified!
O reillys reply
http://atp.datagate.net.uk/blog/?p=249
Eep I didnt think of linkage. Sorry I’m a muppet.
Feel free to delete the link.
Nah you ain’t a muppet. Happy to link to you since that’s where I saw the first news of the reply.
That’s a bit strong isn’t it? “fucking assholes”?
I work for said company and have made comments about how cynical the whole Web 2.0 thing has been. I think you misunderstand the ties between the said company and the Cork IT community which is very strong. This company have presented at and sponsored IT@Cork events and have close ties with many members of the IT@Cork steering committee.
I think you misunderstand what is really just playful banter to be something more than it is. Isn’t this whole debate centred around things like freedom of opinion, sharing, etc? A company that is a member of and contributes to an organisation is entitled to engage in debate about the subject matter of events like the Web 2.0 event.
You might need to get your facts straight before shooting from the hip.
Yes it is all about freedom of opinion. I stand by my opinion.
I think you completely missed the point of the Blog article. The point is to draw attention to Web 2.0 being nonsense not to attack IT@Cork.
Here’s my opinion then:
“Invisible people have too much courage”. Because you know where we are, please come to our door and call us “What a bunch of fucking assholes”. Until then be content by writing pathetic blogs…
It’s strange how “Invisible� people forced a company to make a public response in less than 24 hours. One “Invisible� person might not make a difference but many will. That is part of the whole ethos behind web 2.0.
Has somone else got their Work “Blinkers� on?
Damien… You need to go down to their office and YouTube a video of yourself on their intercom saying “What a bunch of fucking assholes”. Instant hit.
Hi Jason,
You may have misread, but the company that Damien refered to was not O’Reilly or CMP, but another company that I happen to work for, which is based in Cork, that he believes was in some way trying to undermine IT@Cork. He was calling this local Cork IT company a bunch of fucking assholes, not O’Reilly / CMP.
What Damien is complaining about is a lively debate between said cork company and IT@Cork about whether Web 2.0 is a load of hot air or not. Nothing more sinister than that. A lot of people seem to be taking things the wrong way.
The ‘delight’ that Damien refers to is that we might stop having to hear about Web 2.0 and actually deal with constructive ideas to do with where the Internet is at and where it is going (and yes that does include blogging, wikis, podcasting, etc). How that is Schadenfreude is anyone’s guess.
That’s my last word on the matter 🙂
Robin….
Nah. We’ll just invite him in for coffee and have an exchange of ideas 🙂
Damian,
If you are just pissed off with what you consider to be Schadenfreude on our part, then let me put you straight. We are active members of it@cork and would take no pleasure in any misfortune that might befall them. In fact, and it@cork will confirm this for you, this whole episode has been a great boost to the organization as a whole and this conference in particular. Our ‘glee’ – a reasonable enough description – was wholly directed at the Web 2.0 religion being attacked by it’s own pope, and I make absolutely no apology for that.
If on the other hand you wish to defend Web 2.0 (preferably explaining it as you do so), then why don’t you add your voice to the conversations that have been taking place on our blog. Hurling abuse will get attention (as demonstrated here) but it won’t get respect.
I have to add here that the characterization of a 90-plus headcount software development company “snapping at the heels” of Tom Rafferty is entertainly off the mark. Luckily Tom, Donagh and the rest of it@Cork understand the meaning of mature but direct debate. You’re the first I’ve seen descend to the level of calling people “fucking assholes” and I don’t think any of the people you appear to be defending would thank you for it.
@Jason Roe
“They are restricting the development of “Web 2.0â€? as a whole.”
Do you really know what you are talking about? Seriously? What is the development of Web 2.0? Tim O’Reilly says it’s not about technology. So what is it then? What do we develop if it’s not technology? Where’s the added value? Do we create value? Please tell me! Is it AJAX? I’m all for the development of AJAX. But it has a name. It’s called AJAX, not Web 2.0? Why would you call it something else? Oh! Is Web 2.0 more than AJAX? Of course, there’s the blogs and Wikipedia and collaboration. But, wait! What’s the relationship with AJAX? None! AJAX has its strong sides and weak sides. I can compare it to other technologies like Java Applets, Flash, etc. But what is Web 2.0? It is a bag of unrelated concepts. And now it is obvious that it’s whole purpose is the profit of a company. It’s created by the media for the media, not for us the techies.
Regarding IT@Cork, so far, I’ve spoken in IT@Cork 3 times. I work in a company who’s a member and who sponsors events (like the recent Rod Johnson event). But am I expected to believe in Web 2.0, a non-sensical hype-driven term, just for the sake of a talk? I don’t think so. I don’t know what’s going to happen now but I was going to attend the conference, as I usually do, hoping to learn something that I missed. But I would have asked my questions and told my opinions there, unlike some other pathetic people who can swear at people in their blogs but would stay quite in front of them. So before judging, learn your facts!
The Definition: “Web 2.0 is a term often applied to a perceived ongoing transition of the World Wide Web from a collection of websites to a full-fledged computing platform serving web applications to end users. Ultimately Web 2.0 services are expected to replace desktop computing applications for many purposes.”
For a long time PHP, ASP, CFM and JSP were known as “Web� technologies. The new development of more interactive technologies now fits under this new term Web 2.0. If you can’t understand this concept you really need to read up on the matter. Get out of your Sand box with your dated ideology and get into the real world.
So in Web 2.0 we won’t do any of the PHP, ASP, CFM and JSP?
“The development of new interactive technologies?” Hmmm? Such as? JavaScript? CSS?
Regardless of the merits of the term Web 2.0 (and we are talking about a term with 6 characters in it – 7 if you count the space 🙂 – not the many ideas behind it such as collaboration, sharing, etc), I think we can all stand in agreement that what the lawyers of O’Reilly and CMP are doing is counter productive. I for one don’t like seeing local well-intentioned upstanding and not-for-profit individuals attacked on the basis that they are somehow deliberately trying to profit from the use of the term Web 2.0.
Yagiz as I said read up. Web 2.0 mainly sits ontop (PHP, ASP, CFM and JSP) or beside (JavaScript, CSS, XHTML) standard web technologies.
Are we even allowed to discuss Web 2.0 now 🙂
Those men in suits might come aknocking….
Well Jason please stop insulting my knowledge and telling me to read up. Instead please start discussing. I’m not expecting you to write a Web 2.0 tutorial (actually that would be great, you would make millions but how can you, it’s just fluff). I just want to see how far you can hold a technical conversation…
So, I repeat my point: You mentioned interactive Web and you said that Web 2.0 sits on top of server side Web technologies (ASP, JSP etc.) and client side technologies (JavaScript, CSS and XHTML). Are you describing AJAX or is it something different?
Yeah, maybe Damien is right.
Jason… is that the best you can come back with? what a shame.. I for one was looking forward to something more… If nothing else your lack of substance in your reply to Yagiz leaves me to believe that this is as good as it gets for you!
Damien has done nothing more then let himself down with his gutter-snipe attack on “an American company based in Cork”. Healthy debate is always good and unfortunately in Damiens case he seems inadequate in that area and resorts to name calling. What a shame!!
As Damien says, everyone is entitled to their opinion. If he wants to leave calling 90+ people “fucking assholes”, then he can stick with it. That’s his entitlement.
He is still welcome to come for coffee though… 🙂
So… Jason?!? 🙂 No technical arguments ey? Well I thought so too…. You fit well with Web 2.0: No stuff, just fluff!
Good luck in your pathetic lives guys! Jason and Damien, I hope we’ll meet someday, Cork is a small place. In the mean time, you guys can continue your half-brained-intellectual-masturbation in your ménage-Ã -deux :).
“Jason… is that the best you can come back with?� , “lack of substance in your reply to Yagiz leaves me to believe�
Hardly, why should I waste my time trying to explain anything to anyone who clearly hasn’t done their homework? Anyone who condemns a technology on a whim doesn’t deserve a response.
I don’t know about you guys, but my time is quite expensive if you would like consulting please contact me.
“Healthy debate, in Damien’s case he seems inadequate�
You obviously don’t know Damien that well.
Lols. I had been think that Damien was wrong when reading down on this. Maybe not after last saying: “half-brained-intellectual-masturbation in your ménage-Ã -deux” Very company.
Jason, hiding Damien behind your apron skirts is very commendable.. do you stop the big boys from stealing his lunch money too?
Can’t we all just be friends 🙂
Who cares what the definition of Web 2.0 is (we may not be legally entitled to define it anyway)? Those who blog continue blogging, those who advocate collaborative software or hosted software continue to advocate and those who want to talk about the technological advances can continue to do so. Arguing over 6 or 7 characters and what they mean is like asking what is the meaning of life. You’ll get hundreds of different answers.
As expressive as ever Damien.
I am trying to calm this as both parties are respected, valued and supportive friends of IT@Cork.
It may be a matter of a ‘slagging match’ gone too far.
This is distracting from the central point of Web 2.0 and I dont see it as comments of disapproval of IT@Cork activities. Constructive feedback on IT@Cork always welcomed.
Focus on the game at hand please
All I want to know is who this Cork company is 🙂
Well, we have a tag rugby team in the Cork leagues which I play for 🙂
I hear what you say about the boots here
Definitely required…
Paul,
The company is DeCare Systems Ireland. You can follow the link on my name above to see and judge for yourself the content of our blog.
One would get the idea that there was something heinous on the DSI site from all the furore that Damien caused, but there really isn’t. It’s just more on that world-wide debate on the merits of using the term Web 2.0 that you can read on 100 other blogs. Everyone is invited to read and comment. But, you might wonder what all the fuss was about if you do. 🙂
What incredibly rude people they are! Amazing…
[…] Look here. Read the comments by Larkin, Yagiz and ESPECIALLY Liz. I mean, really. The original article wasn’t too polite, to be sure, but if these commentators are the sort of people who sparked it, who could be surprised? […]
DeCare have a blog? My, I really have been out of Cork for too long…
Hey guys. One thing I don’t think I was was rude. I was trying to keep the dicussion civilised. I even invited Damien around for coffee. I wasn’t being disingenuous when I made that invitation.
Look, I even posted about the merits of Web 2.0 and my take on what it means a while back here…
The value of Blogs – An example of what Web 2.0 is supposed to be all about
I do understand the concept of the blogging community and sticking up for each other (I do have my own personal blog for over a year, though not as active as I would like it). I don’t blame you all for that.
It’s great to see communities working together and segragtaioIt’s great to see communities working together
(“I even invited Damien around for coffee”)
and segragation being a thing of the past
(“blogging community … sticking up for each other “)
and demonstrations of personal humility for peace
(“I do have my own personal blog for over a year”)
So, I assume you guys will meet at the IT@Cork Web 2.0 event to have a good laugh at this
I would be delighted to meet Damien and everyone else who posted here. I certainly plan to be at the event. It should be very interesting and educational.
hmm! That Yagiz guy has potential!
I think I might recruit him!
Death to the infidel Web 2.0. All that sharing and caring, makes my stomach curdle!
Long live the pedant technophile!