Labour have bedded with Fianna Fáil in the past and how long did it take Eamon Gilmore to come out and say they would NOT go into Government with Fianna Fáil? Only when the polls declared certain death to Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael roaring into a huge lead. Leaving their options wide open for so long tells you something of their philosophy. So while Gilmore and his posse were constantly slamming the Government, they never said they were ruling out a deal. The door is always open with Labour and they can always so a Trevor Sargent if needs be. A vote for Labour is a vote for Fianna Fáil, a vote for the Greens is the same. Fianna Fáil and their corrupt antics should have them be wiped out but it won’t, they always bounce back and they can do it faster than any other party so they might be weak now and you can weaken them more but when they get stronger (in part due to poor opposition) then Labour will u-turn like they like to do.
Photo owned by gipajournos (cc)
So what have you got left? Fine Gael? Independents? Socialist Party?
Troublingly, the alternative of not voting/spoiling your vote is not a good option. You need to get out and vote but do it in a clever way. Jason has a quick guide.
And don’t listen to the voting local and on local issues naysayers. Nobody has the right to tell you for what reasons you are voting for but bear in mind that national politics and what parties do nationally has huge influence on local politics anyway. No money or crap money means local politics just stalls.
Well, I had an interesting extended conversation with a guy who wouldn’t vote Labour because “a vote for Labour was a vote for Fine Gael”.
A vote for Labour is a vote for Labour, nothing more, nothing less. If the electorate, in their wisdom, decide that our country should be run by a coalition (which failing to elect a single party to majority is guaranteed to do), it’s up to all of the parties to look at what way the numbers stack up. If the Unionist parties can do cabinet business with Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland, it just goes to show that any combination is possible. Maybe ministerial appointments in this country should be allocated on a de Hondt basis? Couldn’t be any worse than we have at the moment?
On the local council here in Wexford, FF and FG had a power-sharing agreement in place to sew up committee places and such, so around here, by the same logic you use, a vote for Fine Gael is a vote for Fianna Fail, and vice-versa!
Sinn Féin have a voting pact with Fine Gael on Dublin City Council. So, a vote for FG is a vote for terrorism.
Keith: Is this an official statement from Nessa Childers, given you’re her in all her online vehicles?
Oh and pretty ironic given the past dabblings of the current Labour Leader and Official Sinn Fein.
Tongue in cheek, of course, drawing on your claim re Labour. But the pact is true! And hardly hidden that I’m a Labour staffer – it’s all over my blog, which is linked to directly from that post.
Without meaning to get too technical, our system of voting which uses proportional representation with the single transferable vote means that it is unlikely we will ever get a clear majority or a single party leadership. That means that we are always to some extent looking at a coalition. Even a large FF/FG majority tends to need independent support.
So in theory a vote for any party can be a vote for another one…as when push comes to shove (as we saw with the Greens) if there is a chance to get into power by getting into bed with the devil they will do it.
FF would partner with anyone as would FG, Labour, the Greens and SF.
Vote for who you think will represent you well and who represents your beliefs in a society….not because your father or grandfather fought on one side or the other years ago.. but please, do vote!
Damien, I have to disagree with you here. Gilmore has tried to put some clear water between his party and the other two in this campaign. At the sharp end of a campaign this week, any part’s tactics can appear to be confusing and giving out mixed messages.
Although we might differ with Labour on many issues, I think this is an ideal opportunity to begin to take people this polity of 2.5 party land. I have many reservations about Labour myself but will be supporting their candidates this Friday.
Why is everybody concerned with who gets into bed with who?. This has been indicative of this election campaign. Its a numbers game – always has and always will be. No one party is going into government on its own so everybody will be open to brokering a deal with each other except maybe Fine Gael and Fine Fail (which imho are one and the same) as they have a better chance of implementing their ideas than sitting on the outside looking in. Its been extremely disappointing listening to the media going on about this e.g. well would ya this and would ya that, instead of focusing on policies, policies, policies. Personally with all the media attention I am still pretty clueless regarding political party policies. It’s bloody insult to the people of Ireland listening to these politiicans throwing muck at each other and the media encouraging them….utter nonsense..
Sinn Féin have a voting pact with Fine Gael on Dublin City Council. So, a vote for FG is a vote for terrorism.
Keith could just as easily say that a vote for Fine Gael is a vote for the DUP, or a vote for ‘peace’ or a vote for ‘decommissioning’, something for which the Labour/Official Sinn Féin/Official IRA never plumped.
I’m no SF supporter but I do think it’s time that the establishment parties in the south gave up this notion that SF is a terrorist/revolutionary party. It’s a wannabe establishment party. The difference between FF/FG is something like 50 years – remember John Costello took Sean McBride, then chief of staff into the government in 1948 and made him, if I remember correctly, Minister for External Affairs. The difference between Sinn Féin and Labour is considerably less – probably 25 years at best.
Damien is right – it’s a great pity that the last few days of election coverage was taken up with this sideshow.
A vote for Fine Gael is a vote for not quite Fianna Fail. What’s they difference between them except that fine Gael are maybe a little less crooked, and judging by Lowry, that’s just because they haven’t been in power as much, not because they’re ethically any purer.
But leave aside corruption. What’s the policy difference? What will Fine Gael do any different? Nothing much that I can see, they’re as unimaginative a bunch of local politicians out of their depth on the national stage as FF are, and as likely to be led by the nose by civil servants in the Dept of Finance. And as for the cretins in Limerick blaming immigrants for unemployment, they make Libertas look almost palatable.
Maybe Labour would be different. Maybe if enough people voted for them, they could be the senior partner in government, rather than simply a watchdog curbing the worst excesses of one or another of the rightwing parties. Either way, the choice for Gilmore is between the evil of two lessers as coalition partners.
I’m not looking forward to voting. And particularly, I’m not looking forward to the patronising shit about a “sophisticated electorate” if the result is indecisive.
>Damien is right – it’s a great pity that the last few days of election coverage was taken up with this sideshow.
I absolutely agree with that!
What happened to the moratorium!!! 😛
Actually I’d rather Gilmore hadn’t addressed the issue at all. I’m looking at this purely pragmatically here and not on principles. If Labour wants to be in government then it makes little logical sense for it to get involved in a pre-election pact with either of the two main parties, at least not this early, instead it should keep its options open.
Now yes there are lots of principled arguments about how it would be wrong for Labour to do this and that after claiming this and that but if it’s objective is to get into government then closing off a deal with either FF or FG is not going to aid it.
All it will do is cement the view in the minds of voters for the side they close off that a vote for Labour is a vote against their side. The potential loss in transfers and votes is substantially more than the potential gain.
Furthermore there may not be an election until 2012, again there are lots or argument against that I am well aware, but the point is lots of things can happen in a 2 and a half years and removing the ability to account for those variables is a needless risk with minimal gain.
It is frankly illogical for a party that wants to be in Government, which the Labour party says it wants to be, to wholly close off options prior to the day of a general election. If their principled arguments against entering Government with a party or combination of parties still stands then they can still exercise that principle after the election during Government negotiations (possibly by opting not to enter Government) without causing unnecessary harm to their vote.
Oh what are you talking about Damien you complete space cadet?
“Michael Egan: A vote for Fine Gael is a vote for not quite Fianna Fail. ”
Given the realities of the situation that one of them will be in any government for the foreseeable future, statements like this are an easy excuse for having perpetual FF (corrupt?) government.
Whether they are the same or not, it’s time the FF stranglehold on both government and administration was broken.
As others have said it will be difficult to get a single party in power. Following that logic it makes sense to just vote for the party you think should be in power.
As you have said, there is not much to choose between FF and FG, except of the personalities. I simply will not vote for FF due to its conduct over the Ahern debacle. Cowen came out at the time and said that he values loyality (to Ahern in this case). Well what about loyalty to your country and to the people you lead??
I’m undecide on the Greens. On one hand they have gone along with the government rather meekly, which annoyed me. However, when I thought about it, maybe they are right – tow the line and in turn get your green policy implemented. Hmmmm…
[…] also have no idea which way to vote tomorrow, but I will […]
To quote you Damien:
“everybody will be open to brokering a deal with each other except maybe Fine Gael and Fine Fail”
So why is a vote for Labour a vote for FF? Surely it’s a vote for Labour, and anybody who will do a deal with Labour, and with whom Labour will do a deal with? Not exclusively FF surely, but including FG, the Greens, potentially independents, perhaps SF at a stretch?
This post doesn’t really achieve anything. As far as I can make out, any vote is a vote for FF, unless it’s a vote for FG, which is essentially the same thing as FF. We all lose, let’s not vote… wut?
[…] of voting Damien asserts that a vote for Labour is a vote for Fianna Fail. Unsurprisingly it is a thesis that […]
That other Damien isn’t me BTW, fixed that for clarity.
We’re fucked.
Vote for Labour, you get Fianna Fáil.
Vote Green, you get Fianna Fáil.
Vote Fine Gael, you get Fianna Fáil Lite.
We are fucked. Boned and rolled by the Christian Brothers.
Time to see if Mrs Merkel will take over, or alternatively if the Brits will take us back, though that’s unlikely. Why the fuck would they?
[…] A vote for Labour is a vote for Fianna Fáil – Mulley.net […]
Has Bock become 20?
[…] The Sunday Independent’s story that senior Labour figures are hinting at working with Fianna Fail after the next election. It cements the idea that many people already have of Labour. […]